http://www.idkfa.com/v3 idkfa: syndicated http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=678 Well, I don't know when the gays go baby crazy, but for chicks, its in the early 30s if there are no kiddos yet (from my experience at least). On a more serious note, it has to depend on your value system. Each person has different things that will make them happy. If being alone and poor in New York City while persuing your dream makes you happy, I hope you succeed. Your road is definitely much riskier than what I've chosen, but I like the safety of what I've done. And currently I get to see parts of the world I wouldn't have been able to otherwise, which rocks! Also, I think your views on marriage and children are noble, because I don't really much like the institution of marriage, and the planet is overpopulated as it is (The Forever War, anyone??). However, I'll get married because the money and security (ie legal protection) are worth it, although love/relationship ideals are more important to me. I'll also have children, but a maximum of 2 (only replacing, not exacerbating), because I think raising a family will be fulfilling. Your views may or may not change, it depends on the experiences you have, but I know that you'll end up happy because you always seem to love changing when necessary. I think our views are dependent on our experience, so I guess that's my response to that question. As for "missing out", life is life. I fight the materialistic view all the time (this is the only way things could happen), but I instead try to enjoy the moment. Sometimes it sucks, but it could always be worse. And you can always change to make sure you enjoy life. So "missing out" is a moot point, I guess. You could always do the other thing, if it will make you happier to do so. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:49:54 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=678 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=656 This subject seems especially relevant right now for a few reasons: a friend just broke up with his fiance, my own feelings on marriage and LTRs recently came into question, and just today I had a long talk with my mother about not only my own disinterest in marriage but in our generation's changing attitudes towards it. What it comes down to is priority, because you can't always have it all, all the time. For some, settled family life is a high priority; furthermore, for some, their other life goals aren't mutually exclusive with a rooted family-style life. For some of us, though, it isn't feasible to have both a healthy family and a healthy career, and herein lies the "path taking" that you mentioned in some other post. For me, my goals aren't compatible with settling down and starting a family, nor is that a high priority, so even though there are people in my life with whom I might like to pursue long term relations, those relationships are subject to my pursuing other goals. For you, something happened in your value system at some point that made you reassess your priorities; because doing the type of research you want to do and settling down in a long term relationship are things that can't happen in the same geographical location, you had to choose one. Two last questions remain for me, though: first, who misses out? This is one of those either/or situations, which means that one side loses out. Is there an objective way to measure, or is the success of one's endeavor in this situation entirely dependent on each person's individual value systems? Second, does it change? That is, although I don't want to be married or have kids or have a long term relationship that might root me down somewhere, will I see things differently in a year? Two? Ten? I think the answer here is probably "duh yes," but if it hasn't changed for me yet, will it? Is it just a matter of time before Wilber@idkfa.com (Wilber) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:41:44 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=656 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=654 That's definitely true, and definitely a good point... I think all of our "life aspirations" or whatever you would want to call it, have all been adjusted somewhat as we've gotten older and realized what we're willing to sacrifice in order to achieve all those amazing things we thought we wanted so badly. CapitolZebra@idkfa.com (CapitolZebra) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 21 Sep 2010 23:24:26 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=654 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=632 Well, you're still in school and such. I would say I'm content with my accomplishments, but rather my position in life (ie the comfort of life), because as you've said, we're all still young. I think Robbie puts it better than I did, but the idea is that at our point in life, you have to choose what you are actually going to do with your life. And that's sort of a bummer, man! I still want to do everything, but none of us are quite that fortunate. But I still intend to make the most of what I have. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:04:01 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=632 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=631 Oh, I understand that there is always more to learn, and that it is a good day when you learn something, but I'm more talking about more practically targetting your ambition, because you'll be learning at your job no matter what. And as for accomplishing things, I guess what I meant is that accomplishment now will take more and more time. Which involves a lot of risk, and choosing one path to spend all your time. So you have to pick and choose (as Robbie said, you can't be president and cure cancer ;) ) At some point I'll probably take classes again, maybe for an MBA, maybe for environmental science, but it's mostly practical ambition now, as I said. Sometimes I miss that idea of the bright, wide open future (maybe that's what I'm talking about), but at some point you have to pick a path and stick with it, for better or worse - or else you're not really going to get very far. Unless you're a genius with never-ending energy or lucky ;) Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:01:08 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=631 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=630 Thank you Robbie, you express my thoughts much better than I ever could. As for your debate, I think it just depends on the person. You personally seem to like putting it all on the line, whereas I don't enjoy that. I certainly hope you succeed, especially doing what you love doing, but that's way to much risk for me... and I also hate being in places where I don't know anyone. I guess I prefer pragmatism at this point over idealism, which is a bit of a switch. I'm happy now with less grand ambitions, and I think I improve the happiness of others around me more as well. While research is still awesome, because discovering new knowledge is awesome, the people that really love it and enjoy it are better fit to do it than I am. Same with people that want to be president or whatever, I don't thrive in that sort of competitive environment. Just depends on what makes you happy. That's really the impoortant thing. And if you're not happy, change things until you are. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Mon, 20 Sep 2010 17:47:50 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=630 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=501 I think what Erik is talking about is different than what you're talking about. Erik's hypothetical 19-year-old ambition machine wants to be CEO of a company and cure cancer and invent a way to feed all hungry nations and then become president of the US by the time he's 40. You're talking about personal growth in one's chosen professional field. I think there's an important distinction here. I also think that Erik kind of hit the nail on the head in his summation: at a certain point, you become comfortable wih life as you know it. Instead of thinking that you have to solve all the world's problems to be happy, you realize that happiness can come from much simpler sources, and that one's purpose in life is finely fulfilled by that happiness. Furthermore, as Erik said, one acquires responsibility that prohibits one from a realization of their 19 year-old selfs' goals, and that makes you reevaluate your life trajectory. I think the issue up for debate is who has got the right attitude on life- the jaded mid-20s worker or 19 year-old ambition machine? Have we sacrifced something important as regards life goals in order to find the stability and comfort that we currently enjoy? Is it better to live a generally shitty life with grand goals and aspiration (and a small, but possible shot at acheveing those goals) or is it better to resign one's self to a life of quiet work with simple, comfortable, and ultimately happy-making pleasures? Wilber@idkfa.com (Wilber) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:39:11 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=501 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=487 hmmm. I think I was with you more when you were just arguing for enjoying and living life rather than stressing about doing more. But I can't say I'm with you in the thinking that we've done so much, why do more. To be honest, I still feel like a kid sometimes. I definitely don't feel that sense of comfort you speak of. I don't really feel like a professional adult who has accomplished much of anything. In reality, I know I have accomplished quite a few things, but there is just SO much more that I want to do! I really don't see myself getting to the point of saying that I'm content with what I've done or accomplish for quite some time. That's something I could see myself saying when I'm maybe 60 or 70 years old. haha. But until then, I really hope I continue to push myself to learn more, do more, contribute more, and generally be more... I feel like no matter what phase of life you're in you can always push yourself to reach some goal in some way or another. CapitolZebra@idkfa.com (CapitolZebra) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:52:28 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=487 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=481 yknow, I almost bought the argument that it gets harder to top what I've already done, but then I remembered that in reality, I'm just a lowly EIT who in a sense is still green behind the ears at this whole engineering thing. I have a whole lifetime of engineering things to learn, and it gets even more daunting when I see the 40- and 50-year old engineers in my office go and ask the 60- to 70-year old engineers. I mean damn, if those guys are still trying to learn more about our profession, then f*ck my knowledge. And you know me. You know my interests lie outside of just engineering. I can't believe how little I know and how much I have yet to learn! It's going to be an exciting ride, and I can't wait to find out more. kitacek@idkfa.com (kitacek) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:41:44 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=481 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=478 That's a good question, I guess. And I think the answer boils down to the fact that we've already accomplished many things, and it becomes ever harder to top what you've already done. I mean, I still work towards goals, but they're more practical now (or completely impractical - hobbies). I think it just comes with being at a point in life where you're comfortable - as a student, you still have to earn that comfort, and once you have it, there isn't as much to gain in doing similar things. I'll call it refined ambition. We also have many more responsibilities now, which complicates things, of course. I mean, I tried out teaching, and failed miserably, but that was something I thought would be fulfilling. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:25:37 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=478 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=476 why would we let the ambition stop? I still look for the next thing to do once I've completed a goal. FE exam, UAA classes, which then evolved into an MBA program, the Leadership Anchorage stuff I did last winter. I just argue that there's no good reason to stop looking for the next achievement. kitacek@idkfa.com (kitacek) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 02:17:08 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=476 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=471 It's amazing how even that sort of life actually would get old after a while. Any time I have had a period of time where I am not working or at least working towards something, it is absolutely phenomenal for a period of time, and then I just feel like a waste of oxygen. I think like Erik, that 19 year old ambition machine kid in me hasn't died yet, I guess... CapitolZebra@idkfa.com (CapitolZebra) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:55:47 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=471 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=470 while I do agree that you probably won't be happy with a job paying below that, if that were the motto to live by, I don't think anyone would have a job once they graduate college. haha. actually... my mom STILL doesn't make that much, and she's been working for 25 years in her job. CapitolZebra@idkfa.com (CapitolZebra) Status Report, 2010 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:51:28 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=470 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=467 I like the former: "Don't get a job unless you can make $75k a year, kid. Otherwise, you just ain't gonna be happy." Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:42:51 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=467 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=466 I guess so, that's why we have hobbies. Like performing for people ;) Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:42:11 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=466 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=456 Some days all I want is to live and work on a farm in a sunny place with people I like and just till fields all day and then take afternoon naps and swim in rivers and eat porridge and sit around playing cards by the woodburning stove in the evenings. Ignore for a moment the juxtaposition of me doing manual labor and instead focus on the quaintness of that sort of life. Or, I suppose a pretty close analogue is to spend my time working a pretty meaningless job on a train with people I like in a place I love. But this sort of lifestyle seems appealing for a few months, and then its time to actually accomplish something. Wilber@idkfa.com (Wilber) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:04:11 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=456 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=454 We should cite this in response to their ambition. Or just remind them that mo' money, mo' problems. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:20:59 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=454 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=452 Lol, I had a quite similar experience with a 19-year old. I'm convinced that adolescents at that age are ambition machines. They'll eventually realize the error of their over-reaching soon enough. And I guess the big dumb life is just living. Simply not thinking too hard. It's kinda nice, but kind of unfulfilling. I think the 19-year old in me hasn't quite died yet... but soon, heh. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:01:49 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=452 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=424 Define "big dumb life." Also, I just rode for four hours with a college-bound 19-year old. He kept asking me, "So what's your plan now? Now that you're done? No, now that you've got a house? Do you plan on moving?" etc., etc. I just wanted to say, "Kid... I'm just livin'." kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Status Report, 2010 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 22:26:41 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=424 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=412 Shwooooops, missed the whole 'archiving' thing and whatnot... anyhow, let's reflect, shall we? This last year has been pretty interesting. And by interesting, I mean much different than prior years. It seems like I have been through many transitory periods since graduating from college. Let's recall them: 1) Went back to Alaska, and applied for jobs. MANY jobs. And finally ended up doing corrosion testing on the slope (read: manual labor), which was soul eroding. Perspective changed to ideals, as I quit and decided to apply to grad school, and got in. Also worked a summer for big oil, which was fun. 2) Grad school. Very much intellectually stimulating, but soul eroding in another fashion. Decided real life was better than try to live through my ideals. Came back to Alaska. 3) Environmental science for Nana after applying for many jobs. For a whole year now, almost (!). This last year has been great. Being close to family, friends, and Libby, and earning a decent wage while having variety in my work. And I have time for hobbies! Of course, living without having to worry about money is pretty awesome, and that's been the main change. Security. But in a big dumb life. I still somewhat miss the great PhD endeavor, but that just means I'll have to do something else to give back to humanity (working to remediate the environment is pretty cool, though, I must admit). The variety that my current has given me has kept me from trying to transition to yet another stage... but we'll see where the future leads. I was recently reminded of a past era of my life, because I got rejected from 5 jobs I applied for in August 2009 about a week ago. Thanks for the timely response, State of Alaska. It was just interesting to think of that time, rather, those times in my life where everything was dangling by a thread. I know I don't ever want to go back to that. I guess I'm fortunate in a way, to have failed and picked Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Status Report, 2010 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 04:00:40 -0800 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=412&msg_id=412