http://www.idkfa.com/v3 idkfa: syndicated http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4842 The Toy Story franchise certainly gives me hope. Toy Story 2 was better than the original IMO (and originally conceived as a straight to DVD sequel!), and the third one was almost as good as #2. However, that story was an arc about becoming an adult, and, really, our age group was perfectly posed to reap the rewards of those films coming out. Reading up on this on Wiki, it's interesting how it all came about, and, essentially John Lasseter (chief creative officer) has stated that they do movies/sequels/whatever based on the quality of the story. But then the article states that Mosters University release date was moved back from November 2012 to June 2013 because summer pixar movies are "more profitable". Hopefully the latter is all the cash-grabbery involved. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:01:01 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4842 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4840 In the case of Pixar films it could be a mixed bag. For instance I would say that toy story 2 was just as good as the original and toy story 3 ranks pretty high as well. On the other hand cars 2 sounded like an excuse to make money off another mediocre story with crappy characters. Making a sequel can mean that less time goes into the development of a whole new world and characters, and character motivations. This could leave more time devoted to a better story with interesting character arcs, cooler tricks of animation and the like. Since Monsters Inc. was a good movie with interesting characters and a good story, it might have a fighting chance as another great sequel, or prequel in this case. MrFood@idkfa.com (MrFood) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:56:59 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4840 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4838 I would argue that most sequels are money-driven rather than a labor of love, but hopefully not in this case. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:31:11 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4838 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4833 This is probably the most accurate comment. Green Man@idkfa.com (Green Man) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:11:08 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4833 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4832 As a dad who has seen all but the worst of their works, and by that I mean Cars 2 and that it is their worst is just based on assumption, I can tell you by watching countless hours of special features that the best of the Pixar films are the ones they make for themselves. It's perfectly possible that someone who is a lead animator, story artist, even the director themselves is just a big Mastodon fan. And they want nothing more than to find a way to bring their own love of music into this project. It may have nothing to do with Disney/shareholders/pandering at all. MrFood@idkfa.com (MrFood) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:53:28 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4832 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4830 I like the concept of "gloat/counter-gloat." kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:09:15 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4830 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4829 I WILL COUNTERGLOAT LIKE A RESPONSIBLE ADULT! PUT THIS ON THE 'TILS JOSH! My last point: Pixar, although I respect their art, is still a business. They would not do something like bring in Mastodon just for the hell of it. Some sort of market research is guiding this decision, I'm sure. Since they somehow make movies that damn new anyone can enjoy, I can only assume they have market research wizards that make sure their movies are universally appealling. EVEN WITH A METAL BAND! Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:03:55 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4829 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4828 There is a hard rock chart, and that includes metal releases. But this is an aside, although there are plenty of metal albums that have charted fairly high in the overall Billboard 200 (Pantera's Far Beyond Driven at #1 certainly comes to mind). Mastodon is certainly pop culture, based on the the fact that they have albums chart fairly high (#10 on Billboard 200 for their latest), and have sold hundreds of thousands of albums. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:56:42 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4828 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4824 Saying that metal is part of pop culture is casting a wide net for pop culture, since Billboard somehow has a Bluegrass chart and Regional Mexical Songs chart, but no Metal chart. Aside: if metal is listed on the rock chart, can someone please explain to me why Hey Ho by the Lumineers is #1? Particularly when Some Nights by fun is #2? I think Billboard is getting loose with the language. Or, perhaps, my prescriptivist bent is showing again. conrad@idkfa.com (conrad) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:11:32 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4824 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4823 The critical distinction, of course, is the difference in a first definition and a third definition. Ask any uber-nerd studying for the SATs which one is more common and which one they'll be tested on. Regardless, I already conceded the point of a denotative overlap and reiterated the connotative difference. Moving right along... I find my pessimism regarding their collaborative output no more unfounded than your blatant optimism given the context and circumstances surrounding the joint venture. For me to accept it on its face, there would have to be previous cases of success in the realm. Ozzy Osbourne famously worked with Miss Piggy (and let us not forget Kermit working with Alice Cooper). The Muppets have a much longer history positively influencing children (if we overlook Elmo's rather inappropriate tickling escapades of late). However, these musical moments are likely best left in the dank recesses of the mind. I'm an empiricist, and collaborations of this nature frequently bear tainted fruit. To say my skepticism and disapproval of Pixar and Mastodon's actions are baseless would be a bit off the mark. I don't harbor any grudge regarding this malformed union, but, rest assured, I will set a reminder to revisit this thread once the movie is released to gloat when it is, in fact, terrible. conrad@idkfa.com (conrad) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:01:45 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4823 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4822 The normal snacks, backing away cautiously... cracks up every time I see that. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 01:00:47 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4822 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4821 To remain relevant, Pixar has to change with pop culture. And, like it or not, metal/rock is part of pop culture. Saying a certain genre does not belong in a children's film at face value seems silly to me. Plus, heavy metal is obviously beneficial for some. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 00:26:53 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4821 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4820 Two can play this game (#3), although it's obviously besides the point: which is to say, I think your disapproval and dismissal (better words?) of this collaboration as a gag is premature, as both entities are established and accomplished artists. I understand my tastes do not mix with children in general, I was rather saying that although it sounds silly, the music on Crack the Skye is incredible. So more of a defense of Mastodon more than anything else. Of course, it may turn out like the Aqua Teen Hunger Force COLON Movie, but I doubt it (since that is Adult Swim). Even if it did, I would obviously love it still ;) Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Mon, 10 Dec 2012 00:22:32 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4820 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4819 How progressive! But seriously, change can be good. We can sit in the masturbatorium perfectly content while Pixar cranks out quality sequels and canned tropes of feel good faery tales, or look on with anticipation (skeptically!) as they try something new. The capitalist in you should embrace the idea that growth is good lest their product become stale. It could suck, but they need to carve out a new market in before someone else comes along and steals what their greedy greasy Disney hands already have a strangle hold on. As a counterpoint, I loathe the idea of growth for growths sake. Innovation is awesome, but if you have an amazing product, why change it or compromise it because your investors demand a 5% rate of return? If I ran a company with integrity, and produced a product I was happy with, I don't think I could go public for a brief windfall just to watch shareholders set unreasonable expectations. So to conclude, what the fuck are you doing Pixar? Stop with this metal bullshit and give me Randy Newman. But I also want new content. #confused Green Man@idkfa.com (Green Man) Cognitive Surplus Sun, 09 Dec 2012 21:24:09 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4819 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4818 Condemn - ": to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation condemned as racist> " Condemn and censure are essentially used interchangeably, it appears. "Shame on you" is what my grandma told me when I stole a cookie when she wasn't looking. Censure (or, condemnation) is what happens to Joseph McCarthy for conducting himself "contrary to Senate traditions" for his communism witch hunts. I don't think they carry the same connotative "weight." Denotatively, I suppose it is technically a form of censure. However, if I wanted to condemn Pixar, I most certainly would have said something along the lines of "Fuck you in your fucking face holes, Pixar! You're ass raping something beautiful here. LEAVE MY GODDAM CHILDHOOD ALONE." That is condemnation, or at least a close approximation. Also, just because it's one of your favorite albums doesn't make it Pixar-appropriate. Randy Newman set the tone with the original Pixar movie, Toy Story. There are standards, and they shouldn't be tossed aside for the novelty of "Look! A metal band is collaborating with a kids movie company!" In the same way I will likely never enjoy savory ice cream or Bjork's fashion choices, innovation is not necessarily endearing. conrad@idkfa.com (conrad) Cognitive Surplus Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:47:30 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4818 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4815 I'm not sure what else "shame on you" would mean other than censure (to publicly declare disapproval, as you have). Both have about the same connotation in my mind. And the album you speak of is one of my favorite albums of all time! I've seen them play Crack the Skye in its entirety live before. So good. Sooooo good. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Sat, 08 Dec 2012 19:34:11 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4815 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4812 That sounds pretty awesome, actually. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:44:17 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4812 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4811 If "Shame on you" is considered condemnation, perhaps it's time one of us recalibrate the ole "hate" meter. If they want to do it, it's not going to prevent me from watching the movie. However, I've got pretty high expectations from Pixar. This would be a bit like someone saying "Oh, did you hear The French Laundry is going to work lutefisk into a delightful little sorbet?" When you're a world renown animation company with billions in revenue from blockbuster childrens' movies under your belt, I think you're being a little heavy handed with the idea of juxtaposition or a foil by having a band who wrote an album that is about an out of body experience that "follows a quadriplegic who learns astral projection. On his journey he flies too close to the sun, burning his umbilical cord which connects him to his body, and flies into oblivion. At the same time in Czarist Russia, Rasputin and his cult were channeling spirits and brought the quadriplegic to their time. He explains his situation and foretells the assassination of Rasputin. Inevitably Rasputin is assassinated and Rasputin guides him back to his body." conrad@idkfa.com (conrad) Cognitive Surplus Fri, 07 Dec 2012 00:17:50 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4811 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4810 Condemnation before the music is even written for the film seems a little premature. I have faith in Pixar and Mastodon to do something tasteful, even if it does play on tropes (e.g., showing an outcast that listens to metal actually being a cool guy, going on a rampage to metal, scary kids with metal, etc). For the record: Mastodon previously scored Jonah Hex. While the movie sucked, the score they provided was generally atmospheric and instrumental (not even instrumetal for the most part!). Their newest album, while it has heavy songs (like the previously linked song), also has songs like this. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:53:46 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4810 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4809 Pixar is above mashing genres for shock value. Shame on them. If I want awkward combinations of culture crossover, I'll youtube videos of little old Jewish grandmothers lip syncing to Smack My Bitch Up. conrad@idkfa.com (conrad) Cognitive Surplus Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:24:19 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4809 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4808 And I enjoyed that show. Just saying I'm curious to see how Pixar does its end-movie Mastodon montage. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:09:13 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4808 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4807 Just to put things in perspective, a movie ending with a music video of Smashmouth covering I'm a Believer pays my bills. Also, old while people and small children love to dance awkwardly to it. Wilber@idkfa.com (Wilber) Cognitive Surplus Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:45:24 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4807 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4806 Well, I only hope they can match the awesomeness that was the episode of Spongebob with a soundtrack by Pantera. SO. GOOD. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 19:29:51 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4806 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4805 I remain optimistic. I want to see what they do, and if there's indeed more story to tell for their Monster's Inc. universe. I just don't want another Cars 2. Or Cars 1. Let's just forget about Cars. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:24:40 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4805 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4804 To be fair, Mastodon is creating music specifically for Pixar, for the new Monsters movie. I don't think they're just sandwiching (samwiching?) their hits into it after signing a lucrative deal. It could suck, sure. We could get a horrible live action - animation synthesis set to the credits while they croak out violent lyrics. Pixar is still a giant force of creative geniuses that have made films that could stand the test of time longer than the Disney classics of yesteryear. They have the integrity to create lasting products other studios lack. I have confidence. Green Man@idkfa.com (Green Man) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:13:19 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4804 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4803 I'm just curious. I want to know how they can fit story elements together such that a) it makes sense to have a metal song in a kids film, b) it has the song's inclusion be funny or make sense in the context of the film without the majority of the audience knowing about metal, c) it does justice to metal, and Mastodon, and isn't just for a cheap laugh ("It's funny because a character listens to music that doesn't sound like pop music. Ha."). Basically: I just don't want to see the movie end with a music video of Smashmouth singing "I'm a Believer." kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:28:30 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4803 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4802 You're doubting their creative direction? These designers have produced a host of quality films unrivaled in the animation industry (save Cars 2). They could announce they'll be launching a new series based on Pedobear; they've earned my faith thus far. Green Man@idkfa.com (Green Man) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:10:10 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4802 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4801 I'm... honestly curious how they're going to make that work. Worth the price of admission to see, at least. kaiden@idkfa.com (kaiden) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:19:15 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4801 http://www.idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4800 Pixar + Metal Mastodon I love you. Will see this movie. Scrotor@idkfa.com (Scrotor) Cognitive Surplus Wed, 05 Dec 2012 03:46:41 -0900 http://idkfa.com/v3/v_thread.php?thread_id=4800&msg_id=4800